IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Hmm, First Pse Thread!, see above in case you're confused...
Ozrat
post Mon Sep 29, 2003, 10:35 AM
Post #1 | Print


Registered User
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 26
Posts per day: 0.00
Topics Started: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:12 AM
From: Wisconsin/Canada
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 422



I believe this is the sign language that I've picked up...

During my summers I work at a camp for kids with special needs, which I used to go to when I was young enough, and I've learned mostly ASL signs while doing them in an English structure. I never learned anything past a few basic signs until I worked there.

So it's not quite ASL and it's far from being ESL. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this what PSE is? Just wanted to make sure that I got my facts right.

It seems to me that this is the sign language that most (ie hearing) people learn when they learn it from other people rather than from a classroom or other methods of education.

Are there any specific guidelines as far as how PSE is performed? I know that it stands for Pidgeon Sign English or some other weird name (personally I say it stands for Partly Signed English). What is the history behind it?

Thanks!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Southern Belle
post Mon Sep 29, 2003, 11:10 AM
Post #2 | Print


Senior Member
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 2,637
Posts per day: 0.42
Topics Started: 157
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:12 AM
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 25



oh i thought that pse was the middle ground between signed exact english and american sign language.

esl - english as a second language

see - signed exact english

s'belle
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ozrat
post Mon Sep 29, 2003, 11:23 AM
Post #3 | Print


Registered User
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 26
Posts per day: 0.00
Topics Started: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:12 AM
From: Wisconsin/Canada
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 422



That's what I said, PSE is some kind of cross between ASL and signed english.

You see, back in Wisconsin I knew signed english as English Sign Language (ESL) and Signed Exact English (SEE). It wasn't until I came to Canada that ESL became known to me as English as a Second Language. I'm still stuck in the old mindframe, so please excuse the mistake...

So are there any good sources of info on this topic?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Southern Belle
post Mon Sep 29, 2003, 12:04 PM
Post #4 | Print


Senior Member
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 2,637
Posts per day: 0.42
Topics Started: 157
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:12 AM
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 25



QUOTE (Ozrat @ Sep 29 2003, 11:23 AM)
That's what I said, PSE is some kind of cross between ASL and signed english.

You see, back in Wisconsin I knew signed english as English Sign Language (ESL) and Signed Exact English (SEE).  It wasn't until I came to Canada that ESL became known to me as English as a Second Language.  I'm still stuck in the old mindframe, so please excuse the mistake...

So are there any good sources of info on this topic?

sorry i was confused, ozrat. i am in the usa and when you said esl, i thought you meant english as a second language.

try google search or yahoo search or www.askjeeves.com for more information about pse - try pidgin sign language too...

s'belle
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ernie226
post Thu Oct 16, 2003, 04:50 AM
Post #5 | Print


Member
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 131
Posts per day: 0.02
Topics Started: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 9, 2002
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 07:12 AM
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 239



"morning Ozrat.......

Did the PSE question get resolved to your satisfaction ???? I have found that PSE (since I use it and not true ASL ) is really just signing as your speaking but with out all the ands, buts, so evers etc... and using only the major words ( nouns, verbs and tense ) of the sentences as they as formed. It is far from SEE, and certainly not ASL by any means other than the common signs.

I have found that many if not most here in the North East seem to use Pigin Signed English as opposed to pure ASL.... probably because we have no Residence School in NH and the VT school is always full... therefore the deaf children usually learn from home or from those not proficient in ASL.

regards..........
Ernie in NH
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ozrat
post Thu Oct 16, 2003, 10:21 AM
Post #6 | Print


Registered User
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 26
Posts per day: 0.00
Topics Started: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:12 AM
From: Wisconsin/Canada
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 422



Hmm, that seems to reflect my own personal theories about PSE. Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I figured that PSE is more common than true ASL for people that are English orientated.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
IzzisGirl
post Fri May 14, 2004, 07:02 AM
Post #7 | Print


Registered User
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 262
Posts per day: 0.05
Topics Started: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 05:12 AM
From: PA
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 517




QUOTE
PSE  (since I use it and not true ASL  ) is really just signing as your speaking but with out all the ands, buts, so evers etc
This is pretty much on target, except that you don't HAVE to speak while you're signing - that's Simultaneous Communication or SimCom. (This is NOT Total Communication). It is impossible to sign ASL and speak English at the same time, because ASL requires facial expressions and body language that are not consistent with English.

Most hearing people use PSE (whether or not they actually voice) because they learned ASL as a second language and they are more comfortable with English. Deaf people will then use PSE or signed English with these hearing people because the Deaf people see that that's what they are more comfortable with . . . then those hearing people don't get exposure to pure ASL . . . so they keep using PSE . . . and it becomes a cycle.

A pidgin is a language that emerges when two groups of people have a need to communicate but don't speak the same language. They develop a way of communicating that is a cross between these two distinct languages. A pidgin has no grammar or rules and is very rudimentary communication. It can eventually develop into a creole (like the language of the bayou in Lousiana) which become itself a distinct language used by THAT community of people.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lantana
post Fri May 14, 2004, 08:50 AM
Post #8 | Print


"Silence is often misinterpreted, but never misquoted"
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 4,326
Posts per day: 0.70
Topics Started: 77
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:12 AM
From: Oregon Coast
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 210

My Blog


Finally we are hearing from a true professional.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
IzzisGirl
post Fri May 14, 2004, 12:04 PM
Post #9 | Print


Registered User
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 262
Posts per day: 0.05
Topics Started: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 05:12 AM
From: PA
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 517




Thanks Lantana. I think it's a good thing to actually know what you're talking about when you give out information or advice or eventually you lose your credibility.

To paraphrase Jed Bartlet:
QUOTE
If you're going to [proclaim the importance of education], it would be nice not to hide that you HAVE an education.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lantana
post Fri May 14, 2004, 05:20 PM
Post #10 | Print


"Silence is often misinterpreted, but never misquoted"
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 4,326
Posts per day: 0.70
Topics Started: 77
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:12 AM
From: Oregon Coast
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 210

My Blog


Bravo! (IMG:http://www.deafonline2.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/clap.gif)

I feel very comfortable having someone like Izz here.

Whether people like it or not, ASL is growing in popularity. It is an Art, actually.

Way, way (!) back when I was growing up -- and after I became deaf at aged 10, sign language was sign language (what "they" call ASL now) there were no lines drawn. Period! And as I have mentioned, none of us suffered from it. We did not need hearies jumping into the natural language of the deaf to reform us. We all earned a good living and raised competent children. Over half of hearies have poor English skills themselves! And most cannot spell for sh*t! So who has the right to decide what is right and what is wrong for deafies?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PurpleGold71
post Mon May 17, 2004, 08:16 PM
Post #11 | Print


**Goldie rocks!**
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 698
Posts per day: 0.12
Topics Started: 16
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2003
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 10:12 PM
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 387




QUOTE (Ozrat @ Sep 30 2003, 05:23 AM)
That's what I said, PSE is some kind of cross between ASL and signed english.

You see, back in Wisconsin I knew signed english as English Sign Language (ESL) and Signed Exact English (SEE).  It wasn't until I came to Canada that ESL became known to me as English as a Second Language.  I'm still stuck in the old mindframe, so please excuse the mistake...

So are there any good sources of info on this topic?

Yeah..I grew up with PSE -- for the first 9 years of my life...then completely switched to ASL once I hit the deaf residential school.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cheryl Wolverton
post Fri Nov 18, 2005, 11:58 PM
Post #12 | Print


Registered User


Group: New Member
Posts: 2
Posts per day: 0.00
Topics Started: 0
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 05:12 AM
From: Oklahoma (formerly Louisiana)
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 1,059




I stumbled onto this tonight because an article I was reading about Sign Language had asl and PSE mentioned...

I have never heard of any of these before!

As far as I know, you sign....and that's that. I DO know that certain words aren't exact....for example...Mc Donalds in Oklahoma is signed different than in Louisiana....and when you say hear (at least in Louisiana) instead of going toward your ear it's more toward the eye...etc....

But why in the world have they established all of these 'secondary' type things..PSE etc


ASL is ASL...and according to where you live etc, you'll have 'slang'.

Or am I missing hte point?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Linda
post Sat Nov 19, 2005, 08:10 PM
Post #13 | Print


Registered User


Group: New Member
Posts: 16
Posts per day: 0.00
Topics Started: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 05:12 AM
From: Ft Worth, Texas
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 938




ASL is the language spoken by Deaf people in the US and a few other countries. There are variations in some of the signs from region to region (what you called slang), just as us Texans speak differently than people from the Northeast. I like to think that PSE developed because native ASL signers were kind enough to allow hearies trying to communicate with them to use the word order that they were most familiar with.

As far as the other "secondary" types, I think most of them were probably developed by educators. In my courses for my Deaf Ed major, I've been told that in Texas SEE2 (Signing Exact English 2) is the "official" language of instruction. (SEE1 has fallen out of favor because it was not very conceptually accurate; for example, in SEE1 the sign for carpet would have used the ASL sign for "car" + "pet", and gravy would have been signed "grave" + "y") However, I was actually out in the schools this semester observing Deaf Ed classrooms, and the teachers use everything from ASL to PSE to very strict SEE2.

Linda
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LittlePitty
post Sun Nov 20, 2005, 08:17 AM
Post #14 | Print


Senior Member
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 4,328
Posts per day: 0.70
Topics Started: 59
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 07:12 AM
From: Maryland
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 27

My Blog


Somehow over the years I missed this posting! Anyway PSE stands for Pidgen Signed English...or what's between ASL and SEE. It uses ASL signs in English word order and doesn't get into morpemes and all that SEE 1 and 2 do...just my 2 cents worth!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cheryl Wolverton
post Mon Nov 21, 2005, 01:10 AM
Post #15 | Print


Registered User


Group: New Member
Posts: 2
Posts per day: 0.00
Topics Started: 0
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 05:12 AM
From: Oklahoma (formerly Louisiana)
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 1,059




QUOTE (LittlePitty @ Sun Nov 20, 2005, 09:17 AM) *
Somehow over the years I missed this posting! Anyway PSE stands for Pidgen Signed English...or what's between ASL and SEE. It uses ASL signs in English word order and doesn't get into morpemes and all that SEE 1 and 2 do...just my 2 cents worth!


Can I ask which is preferred by deaf people...or do you care? From my point of view...hearing....sign language is a way to communicate...just as with my Spanish..it might not be perfect, but it brings me that much closer to communicating with someone who can't understand English.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LittlePitty
post Mon Nov 21, 2005, 07:57 AM
Post #16 | Print


Senior Member
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 4,328
Posts per day: 0.70
Topics Started: 59
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 07:12 AM
From: Maryland
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 27

My Blog


Since I'm not deaf I may not be the best source of info but I'll try! I think that when deaf people communicate with each other it's probably as close to pure ASL as you'll find. When they communicate with someone who is a "non-native" signer it's more like PSE. I'm not sure if it's a matter of preference or not, more like limited or expanded knowledge of the language.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Linda
post Mon Nov 21, 2005, 11:33 PM
Post #17 | Print


Registered User


Group: New Member
Posts: 16
Posts per day: 0.00
Topics Started: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 05:12 AM
From: Ft Worth, Texas
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 938




That's what I'm finding -- Deaf people seem to be very skilled at changing their signing to match the type and skill level of others trying to communicate with them.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LittlePitty
post Tue Nov 22, 2005, 05:34 PM
Post #18 | Print


Senior Member
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 4,328
Posts per day: 0.70
Topics Started: 59
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 07:12 AM
From: Maryland
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 27

My Blog


QUOTE (ljmaxey @ Tue Nov 22, 2005, 02:33 AM) *
That's what I'm finding -- Deaf people seem to be very skilled at changing their signing to match the type and skill level of others trying to communicate with them.



It's called code switching!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lantana
post Tue Nov 22, 2005, 07:29 PM
Post #19 | Print


"Silence is often misinterpreted, but never misquoted"
Group Icon

Group: Member
Posts: 4,326
Posts per day: 0.70
Topics Started: 77
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002
User's local time:
Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:12 AM
From: Oregon Coast
Skin: IP.Board Pro
Member No.: 210

My Blog


Oh my goodness, another hornets nest. I will say again that we deafies got along just fine until the hearies came along and tried to "save" us. I am 72 years old and completely deaf (since aged 10) and worked as a Student Life Counselor at a residential school for 25 years. We were required to "learn" all the "new" waves of signing. Which wound up confusing EVERYONE, including deafies. We did what we had to do, BUT when we are all TOGETHER, we use our very own ASL.

Deaf teachers and deaf staff from residential schools use more English than true ASL-speaking deafies because they are educated and have alot of pride and have the ability to do so. But still when we are all together, we let it all hang out.

My cousin (hearing) taught at a residential school for over 30 years and when she and I get together, we are stumped! SHE cannot use ASL with me because I have good English ability and I cannot use ASL WITH HER because I know she is hearing. 'Even tho she is actually more fluent in ASL than I am! It is all a block in the brain. We have all become confused because of too much interference. I agree with LP that we deafies have become skilled at de coding. "Survival skills"!

P.S. It is not "slang"! It is just a different dialect, like the difference between the way Texans and Californians SPEAK. Generally, Eastern Deafies are much more fluent signers than (example) we deafies from the West Coast. Don't ask me why!

This post has been edited by Lantana: Tue Nov 22, 2005, 07:35 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Google Bot
post
Post # | Print


Google Ads













Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Collapse

> Similar Topics

  Topic Replies Topic Starter Views Last Action
No New Posts First Information Parents Receive After UNHS Detection of Their Baby's Hearing Loss
0 NetScout 2,327 27th September 2012 - 06:36 AM
Last post by: NetScout
No new First appointment
15 Lucia 11,331 30th January 2007 - 04:49 AM
Last post by: WBHarley
No New Posts First Simultaneous Cochlear Implant Operation For WA
0 NetScout 2,274 10th February 2006 - 01:41 AM
Last post by: NetScout
No New Posts First DeafNation Expo in Chicago Brings in a Whopping 4,200 Attendees
0 NetScout 3,706 11th October 2005 - 03:49 PM
Last post by: NetScout
No New Posts First Hand Experiences
Case Studies
0 loml 3,382 20th July 2005 - 07:57 AM
Last post by: loml


 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st August 2019 - 04:12 AM