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The Deaf World
Lantana
post Wed May 5, 2004, 08:05 PM
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"Silence is often misinterpreted, but never misquoted"
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Perhaps some peeps resent needing an interpreter at all? I came from the old days when there were no interpreters available. Period. Believe me, I am tickled to death to have one now! I do not always need one, but when I DO, I am thrilled to have that opportunity! I am thankful to the ADA Law, etc. for making it possible. 'Occasionally (yes) there have been a few strange ones, but I am so thankful to have them available that I cannot complain!
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Sherry
post Thu May 6, 2004, 04:39 AM
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No ALIAS until January 2005!!! EEK!
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S'Belle,

"step out of my Interpreting role" is a nice way of putting it! I like that- I didn't get to pick my interpreters here but I don't use them anymore since I am not in school. In Colorado I had more say so about who I could pick.

Lantana, it's not resentment. One cannot resent a good interpreter. Flow of information is essential! But when I was in school I had four interpreters. Three of them were anti-CI and it was so irritating being exposed to that kind of rudeness- they only knew I had a CI because I had to change my battery in front of them. The fourth was was married to a deaf man and she was happy for me since I was obviously enjoying it.

It is rare to meet an Interpreter who is pro-CI (or neutral) from what I gather on forums or talking to other deafies at CI events.

Sherry
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Banjo
post Thu May 6, 2004, 06:06 AM
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QUOTE (Sherry @ May 6 2004, 06:39 AM)
Three of them were anti-CI and it was so irritating being exposed to that kind of rudeness

I'll bet that a lot of new interpreters are being told bad things about CI in their classes.
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Linden
post Thu May 6, 2004, 07:14 AM
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I am in Interpreter Training at Wilson Community College in Wilson NC and I dont feel there has been anything but support for CI. We discussed it a lot in my Orientation to Deafness class after watching the movie Sound and Fury. One woman in the curriculum has a son with CI but also uses ASL because she and husband felt that making sure communication and knowledge exchange was happening was the most important thing. Their whole family has learned ASL with the help of a tutor provided by our school system here. The tutor goes to their home and teaches them ASL. Her son is making good progress with CI and is mainstreamed in school with interpreter. They are considering moving to Maryland or DC so that their son can be a day student at a deaf school. Wish there were more hearing parents like this, they seem to be very involved without being "smothering" of the deaf son.
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Wiggums
post Thu May 6, 2004, 09:30 AM
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QUOTE (Lantana @ May 5 2004, 08:05 PM)
Believe me, I am tickled to death to have one now!

Don't you think it'd be nice to unchain her from the basement and let her enjoy the fresh air at least once a week?
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Wiggums
post Thu May 6, 2004, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE (Linden @ May 6 2004, 07:14 AM)
We discussed it a lot in my Orientation to Deafness class after watching the movie Sound and Fury.

Umm, Boult had an update on them and I'm not sure if you're aware but... the daughter eventually got her CI and so did the mother!

I was kind of disgusted at the mother in the end of the movie where she coerced her daughter into saying it was indeed her daughter's decision and the mother played no role. That was manipulative... but I'm glad she saw the light.
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Sherry
post Thu May 6, 2004, 10:29 AM
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No ALIAS until January 2005!!! EEK!
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Linden, I am glad to hear that! I have no idea what they are told. I only know what I have personally experienced BUT I have also met with flack from deafies too. Of course the deafies that pass out the flack are....yeah, immersed in Deaf Culture!

LOL at Wiggum's joke... (IMG:http://www.deafonline2.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Oh- Linden, I agree about the parents! One of the things I like about Cued Speech is it is something that parents can learn in two days. ASL is difficult to learn and wrecks English! It's funny- my husband used to be a linguist but he has a lot of difficulty understanding the concepts of ASL. But as I told him, why bother? I don't sign- I think the last time I really signed was when I met up with Taz and his friends. (IMG:http://www.deafonline2.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) And guess what, all the deafies sitting at the table had CI's, including the baby! (IMG:http://www.deafonline2.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
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Wiggums
post Thu May 6, 2004, 10:45 AM
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The baby had the CI? It's a good thing the parents did not listen to the deaf militants clamoring how terrific it is being deaf (facing higher unemployment, missing out what goes on in the real world, and social circles comprising of a few people living 10 miles away!). I am not bashful when it comes to supporting CI's for babies - and I am slowly gaining more allies with the deaf people. Deaf people are slowly realizing they're indeed missing out a lot, but many remain torn whether to put CI's on their deaf babies. I keep explaining how hearing works - how they can hear every little thing and it's a treasure!

I have also noticed that deaf people are frustrated with job opportunities in their areas so they're moving to South Dakota where there's jobs galore for deaf people in CSD. I don't have much respect for CSD as they're mostly militant deaf elitists. I came across a few at a party and they were so full of hot air. Don't they realize that they're living on government grants?
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Linden
post Thu May 6, 2004, 12:58 PM
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Yes I read elswhere that the Heather, her mom Nita and her brother Tim all now have CI. The youngest child is not deaf enough to qualify for CI so uses HA now. Also the family moved back to Long Island. Heather can actually use the phone now! I have not met anyone associated with my schooling who is anti CI - just a few who would like it but no way can afford it!
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Linden
post Thu May 6, 2004, 01:01 PM
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I may have to look into this Cued Speech thing ... there is supposed to be a center here in Raleigh I think.
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IzzisGirl
post Thu May 6, 2004, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE
Well this is the American Linguistic Society's Resolution .... looks like THEY think Ebonics is a language to me .....
OK, now I KNOW I'm gonna be in the doghouse, but here is exactly what their resolution says:
QUOTE
What is important from a linguistic and educational point of view is not whether AAVE is called a "language" or a "dialect" but rather that its systematicity be recognized. . . . There is evidence from Sweden, the US, and other countries that speakers of other varieties can be aided in their learning of the standard variety by pedagogical approaches which recognize the legitimacy of the other varieties of a language. From this perspective, the Oakland School Board's decision to recognize the vernacular of African American students in teaching them Standard English is linguistically and pedagogically sound.
They are specifically not recognizing it as a language when they say "What is important . . . is NOT whether AAVE is called a "language" or a "dialect"" . . . Let me interpret this (for yes, I AM an interpreter . . . you GOT me!!! . . . I also have a degree in education, hence my attention to the "pedagogially sound" reference):

there is proof that if teachers USE the "vernacular" (to use the ALS's word; in this case, Ebonics) to TEACH the standard language (in this case, English), it will HELP the students to learn the standard language. In other words, the teachers are not teaching IN Ebonics; they are USING Ebonics to teach English. I'll admit it's a fine line.

QUOTE
I have had Interpreters tell me that my CI was awful . . .
I AM anti-CI . . . for babies and children. I have worked with people with CI's . . . three of the students in my school have CI's . . . I would NEVER dare to comment to them what my opinion is of CI's. To the children (all 3rd and 4th graders), I wouldn't do it because it was a decision the parents made and I wouldn't want to cause them to question their parents' decision. If an adult with a CI asked me what I thought of them, I would tell them exactly what I said here - that I am against it for babies and children, but if a teen or adult makes the decision for him/herself, then go for it!

QUOTE
She told the employer that he would have to buy a TDD for the client! Ummmmm, no? She's an interpreter, just interpret!
You're absolutely right. One deaf person I know told me they want to get in the door and get the job . . . THEN they'll request the accommodations they need. That's not up to the interpreter.

QUOTE
Reason I'm not fond of interpreters is that they try hard to pad up my sign language. For instance, I'm using the Video Relay Service and I say things like, "I know hotel well, always full, but can I reserve city view?" and I can read her lips, "I am very well aware of the hotel and the premises, however, it is my desire to reserve the room that enjoy the view of the city. Is that at all possible given the hotel's tendency to be booked?"
If you're requesting accommodations with the Queen of England . . . MAYBE; other than that . . . NO!!!! Otherwise, "I'd like a room with a city view if they're not all already taken" or "I know you're usually booked, but do you have a room with a city view available?" will do.

I will concede that you are all very happy NOT using ASL and have wonderful English skills. I will concede that you guys are COMPLETELY happy with the way your lives have turned out (though I am curious why everyone here is oral or SEE or has a CI). Can't you concede that there are people who are perfectly happy NOT hearing? Can't you admit that there are Deaf (yes, as in culturally) people who are NOT just scraping by, who are NOT working for minimum wage flipping burgers, who DO have their own businesses - like the Deaf jeweler who has his own store in a suburb near me, has Deaf and hearing customers and lives in a VERY nice house; the Deaf professional in my area (I won't mention the business, cuz I think he's the only deaf 'one' in the country) who is worth MILLIONS?
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Lantana
post Thu May 6, 2004, 08:35 PM
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"Silence is often misinterpreted, but never misquoted"
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(IMG:http://www.deafonline2.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tabletalk.gif) Hmm, perhaps this is not the proper thread to start this. In case I am in the wrong, moderators, please feel at ease with changing the location of my post. (IMG:http://www.deafonline2.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Over the years, I have encountered some super egos here. I am speaking mainly of deafies, the hearies appear to be fine. There seems to be a certain pecking order on this forum, and sometimes it is quite bothersome. None of us really knows how the others live for SURE, but there IS an undercurrent of superiority and often a "holier than thou" attitude that has scared many, many prospective members away. I am wondering if anyone else feels as we do? I can only speak for those who have "lurked" and been frightened into retreating. And of course through my own observations.

This forum here is made up of a motley crew of all different flavors of deafies and those who are associated with deafies. I would prefer to think that we are all equal here and are learning from one another. ' Whether you live in a million dollar home with a view, or in a shack on the wrong side of the tracks, we are still here for a common cause. The other deaf forums serve their purpose, also. How can we judge when we have not lived in other deafies' shoes? ASL, Cued, CI, etc. etc. we are all still DEAF. A CI does not make you a hearing person. Good speech is a plus but it does not make you better than your deaf neighbor. Living in a fancy house in an upscale neighborhood does not make you a better PERSON.

Interpreters are a true luxury! I was middle aged before I enjoyed that luxury! Please be grateful that interpreters are available to make your lives easier. Sure, there is still room for improvement, but many of you would never have been able to go to college without an interpreter, whether that interpreter was good or bad.

I am going to open another thread, hopefully to help us all learn more about one another and assist prospective members into feeling more comfortable here.

Thank you for your attention.
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Linden
post Thu May 6, 2004, 08:56 PM
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Dear IG,

If I have offended, please accept my apologies. I use ASL every day since 1970 when I first learned it. I don't have a CI and probably never will, but I am delighted for those who have them and have found their lives to be enriched by it. I know many Deaf people who are quite happy with their lives as-is and do not desire to hear at all. I am a HOH person, and an interpreter. I am currently going to college (again) to get all the right stuff to become a credentialed interpreter. I have a BS in psych and worked for many years as a human factors engineer and general geek in the automotive and pharmaceutical industries. I have lived at a state school for the deaf (as a dorm counselor). I know that due to the late nature of my hearing loss I will never be able to be considered culturally Deaf by those who are the gatekeepers of the big D. That's ok. I am with Lantana - we are different because it is best that way - what a boring world if we were all identical and felt the same about everything. I respect your passion and committment to hang in here and continue discussing all the thorny issues. Just please remember to listen too. There is a quote in the Jewish hearing world ... "God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason." Ancient wisdom but still true today, and I remind myself of it often as I am a person inclined to talk too much. Peace to all,
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Sherry
post Fri May 7, 2004, 04:59 AM
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No ALIAS until January 2005!!! EEK!
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Hi Izzy,

I think Lantana made some good points! And yes- I do agree that there are deafies that do not mind not hearing. I have never said that they did not exist. I also know there are deafies that believe there is a deaf culture (that is fine with me, by the way- I'm not a believer myself) and yes there are successful deafies. I have never said that. I am referring to the ASL deaf population at large...having work in job placement with the deaf, I have seen the sadness they experience. Many struggle with employment and it is a tragedy for them. I have tons of empathy for them. It is not their fault. I find the language barrier (ASL) the problem. It is just something that I have experienced from working in job placement... and something my EX experienced as a DVR Counselor for the deaf. He did that for 20+ years. We all have different perspectives. Mine is from living deaf, being around the deaf and working with them.

I think what got some of us upset was you saying that we were insulting the deaf....and that isn't the case when we are already deaf. It's just that there are many colors of deafness in the spectrum. Most of us accept there is deaf culture and ASL but understanding that there are other kinds of deaf people is a good idea.

There are many ideas to share- and many to agree/disagree with. The secret to sharing ideas is not to shove them down. Just share.

How about we start over? (IMG:http://www.deafonline2.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/flowers.gif) I admire your fiesty nature- truly. You have a lot to contribute!

Sherry
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IzzisGirl
post Fri May 7, 2004, 09:18 AM
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Beautiful post, Lantana. I wept . . .

QUOTE
. . . many of you would never have been able to go to college without an interpreter, whether that interpreter was good or bad.
Not always. There's another saying - sometimes no interpreter is better than a bad interpreter. How about that 'bad interpreter' in Sherry's 'chemistry class' on the SEE board???

QUOTE
There is a quote in the Jewish hearing world ... "God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason."
The rabbi quoted this to my husband and I when we had a HUGE fight (not started by us) at our wedding rehearsal and he quoted it again during the ceremony. Sometimes I forget agout it.

QUOTE
I do agree that there are deafies that do not mind not hearing. I have never said that they did not exist.
No, you haven't. But someone - who shall remain nameless - said that they are crazy to BE happy not hearing. THAT is telling someone how they should think.

QUOTE
I have seen the sadness they experience. Many struggle with employment and it is a tragedy for them. I have tons of empathy for them. It is not their fault. I find the language barrier (ASL) the problem.
I disagree. I will say with my last dying breath that it is the lack of language when the child is growing up. I have SOOOOOOO many friends whose parents sign and THEY are the ones I've been 'flaunting' here. I have SOOOOOOOOO many friends and students whose parents don't/didn't sign and THEY are the ones who have trouble with English.

Thank you for all the . . . apologies and assuaging and kind words. I appreciate it and now I WILL stick around.

Also, when I sound high-falutin', I'm not showing off. This is how I write - letters, posts, papers, lectures. No matter how hard I try to write like I'm talking . . . I can't!

Lastly, I'll post my story if anyone's interested. It's an interesting one AND a long one. And if you say you'd rather not hear it, I won't be insulted.
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Wiggums
post Fri May 7, 2004, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE (IzzisGirl @ May 7 2004, 09:18 AM)
I disagree. I will say with my last dying breath that it is the lack of language when the child is growing up. I have SOOOOOOO many friends whose parents sign and THEY are the ones I've been 'flaunting' here. I have SOOOOOOOOO many friends and students whose parents don't/didn't sign and THEY are the ones who have trouble with English.

I agree - early intervention is the key here. Everybody has differing ideas on how to implement language development - be it done by SEE, ASL, cued, or what have you. I was raised as an oralist despite profound hearing loss, but I moved to sign language at the age of six. I also believe odds were against me and I would not expect others to fare as well as I did, hence my staunch belief for CI's at the youngest age possible for the window will close soon.
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Wiggums
post Fri May 7, 2004, 09:37 AM
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And, by all means, do post your story. I'm sure some of us are interested.
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Lantana
post Fri May 7, 2004, 09:42 AM
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It is very interesting to note that deafies MY AGE, people that I graduated from the deaf school with -- are all successful people and have retired well. And their English is pretty good. Not perfect, but they learn from experience over the years, not from a book.

I think today's deaf youth was born with "Help Me"! written on their forehead. Perhaps they have not experienced enough hard knocks, they have been spoonfed too long.

There are MANY vocations a deaf person can learn. Picture framing and animal grooming are two that come off the top of my head. But they always have some excuse not to look for something they CAN do, they are too busy with "I can't!"

There are fewer and fewer leaders in high school these days too. The kids just want to follow along and be liked instead of RESPECTED.
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Wiggums
post Fri May 7, 2004, 10:48 AM
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Could it be because of the availability of SSI? I have also noticed the same thing with my area. The older folks have their $120,000 RV's and travel around the country. Many also have been to Europe and I'm part of the younger generation. We always wind up talking about Europe and many have complained about the younger folks and they seemed to blame SSI as they did not get SSI back then.
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Sherry
post Fri May 7, 2004, 10:53 AM
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No ALIAS until January 2005!!! EEK!
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Of course I am interested in your story, I am interested in everyone's story.

Not to worry Izzy- I have use my mouth more than my ears more often than not myself. Okay, we're done. Let's move on and start sharing! (IMG:http://www.deafonline2.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/clap.gif)

We can agree to disagree about ASL. Just like Wiggums and I disagree about CI's for prelingual adults. He thinks only kids should get CI's and I disagree. I think kids (with proper support) should get CI's (I've seen soooo many remarkable CI kids) and in the case of prelingual adults, it is okay with me provided they have the right reasons and right expections. I'm successful with it! But I accept he has different ideas about it.

Sherry
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